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 Death of a Magical Girl

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PostSubject: Death of a Magical Girl   Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:43 pm

I'm not entirely sure if this is the right place to post this, so sorry if it's not Sweatdrop but I was thinking about when exactly a magical girl should be considered dead.

The obvious answer seems to be when her witch form is killed, but I personally think that a witch can't really be considered the same person as the original magical girl, because her personality is twisted so much that she isn't all that recognizable. The witch does appear to retain some of her memories from before her transformation (this is shown with Oktavia's labyrinth having elements of Sayaka's memories of the events leading to her downfall), and her emotions, obviously, but that seems to be it. No other mental capacity exists in the witches, so while the magical girl's death is only partially physical (she loses her body, but not her soul), it is mainly a death of the mind. I know I myself wouldn't consider myself "alive" if I had no self-awareness or capability to think/reflect, and the magical girls who know about magical girls becoming witches don't seem to, either (this is mainly shown in Madoka and Mami (both during previous timelines)). Also, the Oktavia fight seems to demonstrate that a witch is not at all a complete representation of the magical girl, as Oktavia cannot understand or communicate with Kyoko or Madoka. So, while a witch transformation is not a "full" death, even a partial death should be classified as a death nonetheless, because if a vital organ in your body, such as the brain or the heart stops working, you die, even if the other organs are completely functional (I know this metaphor isn't extensive, but you get the point). I know this interpretation has it's flaws, but that's how I see it.

You could also argue that they're dead from the minute they make the contract with Kyubey, but not only would that imply that everyone who exists or will exist is also dead (because everyone dies at some point), it is theoretically possible to never die as a magical girl as long as you never die in a witch fight and always gain enough grief seeds to purify your soul gem. I believe Kyoko could have done this if she never met Sayaka and had just continued the way she was living (although it is still possible that she could have died for other reasons, i.e. in a witch fight).

Thoughts? When do you guys think a magical girl is considered dead? Do you think a witch can be considered the same person as the original magical girl? I'm curious to know what you guys think Sayaka

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PostSubject: Re: Death of a Magical Girl   Fri Aug 05, 2016 4:33 am

Personally I consider witch the same person as a magical girl whose soul gave birth to said witch, well, partially. I think they maitain part of their self-consciousness while being deprived of their sanity and their memories are twisted so they for example cannot properly recognize once well known people, also they are obsessed on their despair so much they cannot think logically. If I recall correctly, while Madoka&friends were fighting Homulilly, we heard Homura's voice saiyng 'Stop, don't do it, I must die here!'. She was so fixated on though of sacrificing herself for Madoka's sake, she couldn't keep her sanity, but she was still there.

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PostSubject: Re: Death of a Magical Girl   Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:51 pm

@SockPuppet wrote:
If I recall correctly, while Madoka&friends were fighting Homulilly, we heard Homura's voice saiyng 'Stop, don't do it, I must die here!'. She was so fixated on though of sacrificing herself for Madoka's sake, she couldn't keep her sanity, but she was still there.
Ah, true, that's a good point. I actually didn't consider that Sweatdrop I guess I don't really consider Homulilly the same as most witches, but I'm probably biased...

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PostSubject: Re: Death of a Magical Girl   Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:24 am

Some of the girl's consciousness must be present when in witch form. Homulilly is a good example, while Oktavia is more a counter-example, at least she lost everything that could reason. Before Rebellion I wrote another self-deceiving witch, somewhat like Homulilly. She's Alice who has a cameo (okay, a bit more than that) in the 2nd chapter of GOSE. She's pretty much like American McGee's Alice after seven decades of hunger, still somewhat conscious. She can communicate via her familiar, the Cheshire Cat who seems completely lucid and aware of their situation.
My counter-example is the Anglerfish witch from chapters 3 and 5. It's more like the mix of a nightmare and a predatory animal. It can look into its enemies' minds but it doesn't seem to have independent thoughts.
So, it's far from uniform, I guess. Your witches may vary.
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PostSubject: Re: Death of a Magical Girl   Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:02 am

@alvaro84 wrote:
So, it's far from uniform, I guess. Your witches may vary.

Yeah, that's probably the best explanation at this point. Now I'm curious to see what the other three would be like as witches so that we could know what's typical :o

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PostSubject: Re: Death of a Magical Girl   Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:48 pm

Ophelia's and Candeloro 's labyrinths are playable in Battle Pentagram (iirc). I've never played it myself but we have some info around the 'net and they're even portrayed in fan works :)
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PostSubject: Re: Death of a Magical Girl   Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:10 pm

@alvaro84 wrote:
Ophelia's and Candeloro 's labyrinths are playable in Battle Pentagram (iirc). I've never played it myself but we have some info around the 'net and they're even portrayed in fan works :)

Ah, I've seen some of the Battle Pentagram gameplay, but not most of it, including the parts with Ophelia and/or Candleloro. I suppose I'll have to check it out and see if there's any hints as to whether they've retained their consciousness or not.

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